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Where is the page for Alternative Treatments? What are they? How are they used? Proven or Anecdotal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BryanTree (talk • contribs) 23:44, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Where in Arthritis do I learn more about its connection to HIV? When I posted it as a cause it was noted as fact but then deleted.

Contents 1 Older discussion 2 Spelling 3 Treatment 4 healthyjoints.com link 5 Cookies typo? 6 Links 7 Removal of extraneous material. 8 Addition of References 9 Mention prevalence 10 The missing link: Bacterial infections. 11 Myth or fact: does "popping" or "cracking" your knuckles lead to arthritis? 12 Radon therapy 13 My Poor Grandmother Has Arthritis

Older discussion

Where in Arthritis do I learn more about its connection to HIV? When I posted it as a cause it was noted as fact but then deleted.

Can someone put the history of arthritis in? If someone knows about it.

I've put a lot of stuff in, but this is just the beginning. The main question is whether or not to break up the various arthritis types, ditch the redirects, and use this page only as some sort of a disambiguation container.

Your views please, and some more data. Jfdwolff 21:30, 1 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Finally, I've had the kishkes (Yiddish: guts) to split this horrible article into subarticles, which makes editing it less forbidding. Any external links that purport arthritis treatments will meet with a lot of resistance from me - if the person adding the link can't even distinguish between different arthritis types their links are not worthy of inclusion. JFW | T@lk 02:04, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Interesting, because this link is heading to that direction. Promising treatment. They do however provide more information. like the paragraph below. " Cartilage contains a crucial component called aggrecan, which functions like a shock absorber, helping the tissue bear load and resist compression." [1]

If you read that article, you see that it is another health journalist blabbering. Aggrecanase-2 inhbition is doubted as being efficatious by Dr Devey. Just wait until more research is published. Not every BBC Health article belongs in Wikipedia. JFW | T@lk 06:21, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Spelling

"All arthritides feature pain. Patterns of pain differ among the arthridities and the location." Is it arthritides or arthridities? The Real Walrus 15:13, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Treatment

A few days ago, I was talking to a reflexologist, and they were talking about treatments for long-term ailments that the Amish used. They visited an Amish woman with arthiritis, who was no allowed to take medicine or have surgery for her Arthiritis. She said that she would rid herself of the pain by taking off her shoes and socks and standing on metal plates, and that it had something to do with electrical charges in the nervous system. Can anyone validate or elaborate this?--ikiroid | (talk) 19:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm. The Amish would regard TENS as awfully newfangled and equally forbidden. JFW | T@lk 21:19, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

healthyjoints.com link

I think that a link should be added at the bottom of the arthritis page to healthyjoints.com. Healthy Joints is an online support group and informational exchange for people with an interest in arthritis and other joint problems. It would be a great resource for anyone on the arthritis page.

Here's a link to the site: [2]

Thanks, Daphne Daphne90210 01:23, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

My opinion - it doesn't pass WP:EL, the external link guidelines. The content on the site is pretty shallow. Much of it is just links to other sites like http://www2.ejbjs.org. One page is basically a bunch of links back to Wikipedia: http://www.healthyjoints.com/resources/term-glossary.php. Linking to forums is strongly advised against, and in this case there are maybe 1 or 2 posts. Really not a notable site and it seems like it gets mosts of its useful content from other sites. Plus, linking a general site on an article about a specific subject is advised against. (By the way, this link was also proposed on the Hip replacement and Knee replacement pages as well. I'll post these comments there as well.) Nposs 03:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

Cookies typo?

The words "of cookies" doesn't add to this summary of autoimmune diseases: "in which the body is of cookies attacking itself". Perhaps the author meant 'of course'? Miracle Max 08:46, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Maybe this is vandalism, note the sentence in the history section "members of the family who have kissed a frog one ion there life and dating a cookie". 124.176.184.18 12:08, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Links

Is the Arizona Arthritis Centre link being kept or not? I don't wnat it turning into a slow edit war Adam Slack 11:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Raised at Wikipedia talk:External links#Why do we keep getting deleted? just now. I've directed them here. --Quiddity 20:36, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

It appears that all the other links can stay as long as they are not from the University of Arizona. The explanations given are that Wikipedia is not a link repository, however, the administrators seem to have no problem leaving any other link there. Someone said, not to take it personal, but we are the only site that gets deleted. It is personal, but if they want to delete us, they "own" Wiki. Everyones loss. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Prhowe520 (talk • contribs).

Please read WP:TALK and WP:SIGN for proper talk page protocols. The link is not a comprehensive compilation of information on arthritis, it only contains research results for the centre's own work. Further, readers would have to navigate to the relevant page on research. The parts that would be of use are the minority, far overshadowed by the links for the activities, qualifications of the staff, and things which do not symetrically relate to the arthritis page. Please read our external links policy before adding links to articles. WLU 16:59, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

Removal of extraneous material.

I've removed this:

Around 500 BC willow bark gained popularity when it was discovered to help relieve some of the aches and pains of arthritis. It wasn't until more than 2,000 years later, in the early 1820s, that European scientists began to scientifically study the chemical compound in willow bark that alleviated the arthritis symptoms. They discovered the compound was salicin. When they isolated salicin, however, they found it was very noxious to the stomach. Almost 80 years later, in 1897, an employee of Bayer Company -- then a dye production company -- named Felix Hoffman discovered how to isolate the compound and make it less irritating to the stomach. Hoffman was attempting to make the drug in order to help his father, who was suffering from arthritis. In 1899, Bayer Company trademarked Hoffman's discovery under the name "Aspirin." Today it is believed that over a trillion tablets of aspirin have been sold worldwide.^[1]

because it is completely extraneous and really belongs in Aspirin.

I suggest a section regarding pain management.

And we could also do with some more references...

Evilteuf 08:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Addition of References

One of the things that I find particularly troubling about this article is that there are not references. Especially with medical information (and maybe it is my medical school training bias), it is very important to have references for the information. Hence the reason the reference were added for the information that I added.

Furthermore, external links per Wikipedia are designed for an article that could not possibly include all information. I found this particular Wikipedia article to be light; therefore, the external link was added.

Finally, "link spamming" as defined by Wikipedia -- link spam takes advantage of link-based ranking algorithms, such as Google's PageRank algorithm, which gives a higher ranking to a website the more other highly ranked websites link to it. These techniques also aim at influencing other link-based ranking techniques such as the HITS algorithm." The fact is that there is a no follow attribute within Wikipedia that prevents link spamming.

For these following reasons, I felt that it was necessary to return the article to its previous state. Comments or questions are appreciated.Sailormd 14:50, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree that this article is low on references, but your selected reference (eMedTV) is not quite suitable, being itself completely unreferenced and written by a probably non-authoritative anonymous editor. It is the lowest quality of health information available. See WP:MEDRS for some further explanations. JFW | T@lk 16:34, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

I won't disagree with you as this is the same problem that I had with this article. While the information generally is accurate, its lack of references impacts its credability.24.17.192.108 19:51, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Mention prevalence

Say what percentage of the population gets the disease. Jidanni 19:18, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

The missing link: Bacterial infections.

Many Lyme patients were firstly diagnosed with other illnesses such as Juvenile Arthritis, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Reactive Arthritis, Infectious Arthritis, Osteoarthritis, Fibromyalgia, Raynaud's Syndrome, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Interstitial Cystis, Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease, Fifth Disease, Multiple Sclerosis, scleroderma, lupus, early ALS, early Alzheimers Disease, crohn's disease, ménières syndrome, reynaud's syndrome, sjogren's syndrome, irritable bowel syndrome, colitis, prostatitis, psychiatric disorders (bipolar, depression, etc.), encephalitis, sleep disorders, thyroid disease and various other illnesses. see

Source: Canadian Lymes Association

This material may apply to a variety of illnesses. Like my research has suggested the testing for this one possible cause is difficult, and if overlooked then the patient has very little chance of cure.

--Caesar J. B. Squitti : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 04:26, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing out that Lyme can cause an erosive arthropathy. I agree that the level of suspicion for Lyme needs to be quite high. JFW | T@lk 11:22, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Myth or fact: does "popping" or "cracking" your knuckles lead to arthritis?

Information on this might be helpful. 914ian915 (talk) 20:35, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

No, we're an encyclopedia. Google the Straight Dope or any related site. JFW | T@lk 05:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Radon therapy

A few times already I've added a sentence stating that Radon Therapy is used in many parts of the world to reduce inflammation of joints. And someone is shameless enough to delete it.

My wife has arthritis. It came to the point that she could not sleep at night. A week ago we came back from Montana, where she spent about 30 hours in a radon mine. Guess what? She feels 10 times better. We have seen many people there who tell the same story.

I was born in the republic of Georgia (former Soviet Union), near a small city Tshaltubo, where arthritis patients from all over the Soviet Union were taking radon baths. Those radon baths did help about 90% of the patients. My aunt was coming from Belarus every other year. My mother-in-law, also from Belarus, used to go there. It was not a placebo, and not a short-term psychological effect. Radon therapy is working for a huge majority of sufferers. Radon therapy is more effective than drugs.

Radon is radioactive? Well, yes. But Big Pharma drugs also have side effects, and it's not clear what is actually worse, - radon therapy or Big Pharma drugs.

Why radon therapy is used in so many parts of the world? Probably, because they don't have a Big Pharma industry that is so much interested to sell pharmaceutical drugs. The bottom line, as everyone knows, is profits.

I'm asking everyone to protect that sentence about radon therapy. Wikipedia should not be a tool of Big Pharma.

--Michael Vilkin--Mikevilkin (talk) 04:29, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Please assume good faith and avoid inflammatory comments like "shameless" and "Big Pharma". They are not constructive.

I have removed your contributions because you need better sources. I gave clear explanations in my edit summaries, but I suspect you need to learn about using the page history to see what's been happening and why.

I think we need academic sources (not some website) to demonstrate that (1) radon therapy is popular, (2) concerns about radioactivity appear unfounded, (3) radon therapy has been tested scientifically. Once you advise us on these sources (especially evidence of popularity) I see no reason why we can't mention radon therapy. A quick glance on PubMed reveals about 60 publications, including some that indicate that use of radon therapy is not without controversy. JFW | T@lk 05:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

JFW, thank you very much for suggestions. You are asking to demonstrate that (1) radon therapy is popular, (2) concerns about radioactivity appear unfounded, (3) radon therapy has been tested scientifically. Let me address the three questions in order.

1. Radon therapy is popular, indeed. Radon therapy page has some info, and I can add a dozen more links to most famous places in the world where radon therapy is used to treat arthritis.

2. I would not make a statement that concerns about radioactivity appear unfounded. Even very innocent things may cause a lot of damage to one's health. For example, if you eat a lot of the-best-on-the-market ice cream for a long time, you will get very fat, your arteries will get clogged, and you will die. Use of radon should cause even more concerns than eating Haagen Dazs ice cream. But both can be deadly if not used properly.

Everyone knows that radioactivity is harmful. The question is, what is worse, - to get a dose of harmful radioactivity that relieves arthritis symptoms, or to suffer from arthritis. Last year my wife slept for 2 or 3 hours per night because of pain from arthritis. We were thinking to travel to Tzkhaltubo, Georgia (former Soviet Republic), but a simple Google search allowed us to locate Montana radon mines. Now, after she spent about 30 hours in a radon mine, she sleeps at least 7 hours per night, and she is happy. She walks fast on a beach, and she feels like 10 years younger.

The question is not whether radioactivity is harmful. The question is, what is worse, - to get a dose of radioactivity or to die slowly from arthritis and sleepless nights.

3. Radon therapy has been tested scientifically, indeed. In the Soviet Union, where I was born, it was standard treatment for arthritis. I was born near small city of Tzkhaltubo, Georgia, where more than a million people have been treated in a few decades. And communists would not pay for sanatorium treatment of people if it were not beneficial. They would rather invest that money in the arms race.

Chmelnik, Ukraine (former Soviet Union), is a well-known spa town, where 70 thousands people come to receive treatment each year. Such activity would not be allowed without scientific testing. Again, if radon therapy were not beneficial to arthritis sufferers, communists would not invest money in it. I can offer dozens of examples. See also 100 years of Radon therapy Hope this answers your questions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikevilkin (talk • contribs) 03:09, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

When I asked you to demonstrate something I wasn't asking for your personal experiences. I was asking for reliable sources, not a paper that hasn't even been published. JFW | T@lk 18:50, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Jfdwolff, I don't understand your logic. On the page Radon therapy there are reliable sources of information - web cites of radon spas, where radon therapy is used. You only need to visit those web sites to see for yourself. That will be sufficient to establish that radon therapy is used in Austria, Szech Republic, Ukraine, and Montana-US. I can add a few more sections, if that is not enough.

I did not intend to go into debates about effectiveness of radon therapy. That is entirely different matter. Article Radon therapy only states the fact that radon therapy is used on those places.

Since you are asking me for reliable sources - to prove what? - I did a Google search for "radon+arthritis". The first article there is "Long-term efficacy of radon spa therapy in rheumatoid arthritis—a randomized, sham-controlled study and follow-up" at this address [3]. This article has been published by British Society of Rheumatology. You are working in that country, are you not? So it should not be difficult to verify this info. The article states the following: "Conclusion. Marked short-term improvements in both groups at the end of treatment may have masked potential specific therapeutic effects of radon baths. However, after 6 months of follow-up the effects were lasting only in patients of the radon arm. This suggests that this component of the rehabilitative intervention can induce beneficial long-term effects."

Again, I did not have any intention to get into medical debates. My goal is to inform people that radon therapy is used in many parts of the world to treat arthritis. I do not make any statements about effectiveness of radon therapy. Can I add a sentence to the Arthritis article stating that radon therapy is used in many parts of the world? I feel like back in the Soviet Union. I can not even state a fact that radon therapy is used in many parts of the world. It's unbelievable. --Mikevilkin (talk) 01:33, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Look at the bottom of the screen when you edit. It says "encyclopedic content must be verifiable". It is not acceptable to send your readers to Google to find evidence for themselves.

The study you cite is really quite small. That suggests to me that as a modality it might be popular but does not have much of a research base and is unlikely to get recommended in professional guidelines. JFW | T@lk 13:51, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

My Poor Grandmother Has Arthritis

She was diagnosed (Spelling?) with it several months ago, however I'm not sure my guess is accurate. We're trying Yoga, as that is "supposed to" help settle you and calm you, and all of that good stuff. She's very stressful that she can't do her usual things on a day-to-day basis, i.e. Baking our family lots of baked goods, having us over for dinner (Unless it's takeout), et cetera. Does anyone have some idea of how she could eventually step back up and start doing some of these things again, and the process of getting there? It would be deeply appreciated.

...Since I would love to have an apple pie from her when she can. :)

-Anonymous —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.70.95.204 (talk) 14:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

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