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Editors can post questions here about whether article content is compliant with the Neutral Point of View (NPOV) policy, and editors interested in neutrality issues will give their opinion. If you are satisfied with a response, please tag your thread at the top with {{resolved}}.
For general questions about the NPOV policy, please go to the Neutral Point of View talk page.
Guidance on how to make articles conform to Wikipedia's neutrality policy can be found on pages listed in Category:Wikipedia neutral point of view, primarily the policy pages Wikipedia:Neutral point of view and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view/FAQ. For a list of articles that have been marked as potentially containing a NPOV problem, see Category:NPOV disputes
If your question is about whether material constitutes original research, please use the No original research noticeboard. For review of whether a source is reliable, go to the Reliable sources noticeboard.
See also Wikipedia:WikiProject Neutrality and Wikipedia:WikiProject Countering systemic bias whether these would be better venues for the issues you're trying to address.
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Hizb ut-Tahrir
This page has been hijacked by a group of propagandists for the organization. Given that in the real world HT has been frequently accused of terrorist activities and banned in a number of countries, the current activity on this page runs the risk of causing wikipedia to be used as propaganda for terrorism.
- I've attempted to clean it up and de-POV it a bit. --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:09, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
Edward Jones Investments
The listing has been hijacked by someone inside the company. First they eliminated any controversial history from the company, now a week later they are back writing up a press release. Don't want to get into an edit war with insider, but hoping someone here knows how to control this behaviour.
StopLoss
The last section of the Stop Loss article about topics in the media is biased. It needs to be edited. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.183.100.9 (talk • contribs) 00:50, 20 Mar 2008
2008 Kosovo Declaration of Independence
Someone has used the "Political background" section to post his own views about the Serbia/Kosovo conflict. It is blatantly not NPOV and must be removed - but I'm not well-researched enough on the topic to know what to replace it with. This abuse has not been noted on the Talk page.
The offending section begins with: "Lets not forget the real reason why Kosovo is now independent" and ends with: "As evidenced by the recognition of Kosovo by top world powers such as the US, UK, France, Germany and Canada, its not hard to see why this region deserved its full independence and recognition." It includes various typographical errors in addition to the non-NPOV content. The section was authored by user:SmartPolitics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.166.10.216 (talk • contribs) 04:32, 20 Mar 2008
Anniston Eastern Bypass
The brief article on the Anniston Eastern Bypass in northeastern Alabama seems to be presented from a particular point of view, condemming alleged "land-grabs" and demonizing the local newspaper.
Not a big issue, neccesarilly, just one I found today.
"Annexation" - is this a loaded term?
At the Gibraltar article the following sentence is being argued over:
| “ | The British Government has stated it is committed to respecting the wishes of the Gibraltarians, who strongly oppose the idea of annexation along with any proposal for shared sovereignty with Spain. | ” |
I see a big problem with the term "annexation". It is being insisted upon by a (proud) Gibraltarian Wikipedian who has been in de facto control of the article for many years now (User:Gibnews). Whilst he does good stuff fending off the idiots who vandalise the article, sometimes he can't see past his political views and can put a political slant on the article, which is what I believe is happening here. Therefore, I would appreciate others' views at Talk:Gibraltar on whether "annexation" is an acceptable term to describe what I would say can be replaced with the 100% neutral "Spanish sovereignty".
| “ | The British Government has stated it is committed to respecting the wishes of the Gibraltarians, who strongly oppose the idea of Spanish sovereignty along with any proposal for shared sovereignty. | ” |
Thanks.
The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 11:24, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- This report is way, way premature. Both User:The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick and User:Gibnews have a long history of tendentious arguments on this article. Dragging in others at this stage is utterly ridiculous, particularly in view of the fact that a consensus is not that far away on the talk page. Justin talk 11:49, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
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- I fail to see why asking for others' input is a problem. As you reverted my change within seconds and are yet to contribute to the discussion, I'd like to see you do that there rather than sniping here. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 11:53, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
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- I'm sorry but this noticeboard begins with the following instructions: "Editors can post questions here about whether article content is compliant with the Neutral Point of View (NPOV) policy, and editors interested in neutrality issues will give their opinion." I am using this noticeboard for its intended purpose. You've made your point, now please let me get the opinions of others. Thankyou. The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick t 12:24, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
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- I don't see any problem. Annexsation is used most often in the context of municipal politics. It's just when one political jurisdiction incorporates the territory of a second but the political, administrative structure of the first is retained, as opposed to amalgamation. If I say "In 1912, the city of Toronto annexed the town of North Toronto", this is a factual, neutral statement. But context may be important. What term do most sources use? WilyD 15:24, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
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- That's a North American (and intra-territorial) convention. In international politics, the usual meaning of 'annex' is something like 'assert sovereignty over', with an implication that the state taking the action disregards any existing territorial claims. It's often used to describe the political mechanics of a military invasion. In the UK (at least), municipal authorities have no independent power to absorb unincorporated or junior places adjoining. AlexTiefling (talk) 13:07, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
- Neither of the official Government of Gibraltar websites (gibraltar.gov.gi, gibraltar.gov.uk) uses the term "annexation" in the context of the sovereignty issue, according to google: [1] [2]
- Uses of "sovereignty" abound on both sites: [3] [4]
- Searching the Website of the Gibraltar Chronicle, one of the oldest English-language newspapers in the world, I found a total of 107 matches for "sovereignty", and just 3 matches for annexation (two of which are opinion pieces). This would seem to indicate that even in the Gibraltarian press, references to "annexation" are the exception rather than the rule. As per WP:DUE, we should give prominence to mainstream rather than minority terms, especially in the lede. Jayen466 11:32, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Lebanon
I have a concern about the neutrality of the following section in the entry on Lebanon:
In 2006 however, the Israeli army attacked Lebanon with intense airstrikes and artillery fire alongside numerous ground incursions by Israeli forces - the extensive attacks were in response to a single incident of rocket fire in which two Israeli soldiers were taken prisoner by Hezbollah. The month long conflict caused significant civilian loss of life and serious damage to Lebanon's civil infrastructure (including Beirut's airport). The conflict lasted from July 12, 2006 until a cessation of hostilities call, by the UN Security Council, went into effect on August 14, 2006,[9][6] the country's economy is still struggling to recover.
In particular, the assertion that the Israeli attack was in response to a single incident of rocket fire. My understanding and recollection is that there had been repeated, continuous incidents of rocket fire from south Lebanon into Israel, and the Israeli soldiers were not taken prisoner in a rocket attack, but in an armed incursion into Israel by Hezbollah.
Jim Jones/People's Temple and political alliances
I first encountered this new-to-me content on the Harvey Milk bio which I'm pretty familiar. I have been reading about Milk for years. An editor kept adding in a "Milk's Support for People's Temple" even though there seemed to be little support for this content in reliable sources. I did my own research of what any RS's had to state and inserted several neutral sentences but this alone did not appease their desire to see an entire section devoted to the subject. After an RfC, ANI report and full page protection, Wikidemo came to the rescue and started an article to house much of the content that was seen as undue in this and other articles. They have just now reintroduced this twice again[5] and [6].
I'm not greatly familiar with all the other players and politicians in the Jim Jones/People's Temple universe so I only commented on what I see as POV and, IMHO, questionably sourced items in the Political Alliances of the People's Temple#Harvey Milk section. I detailed these out on the talk page in hopes that the main editors there would look into the concerns and hopefully address them. Now I'm being told that I am acting in bad faith and my asking for reliable sourcing is disingenuous in some fashion. It took me 2.5 months to get the "bonus" undue content off the Milk article but now I feel by having an article just on this subject the editors are emboldened to present information without regards to neutrality. I may be over-reacting to this however there seems to be some agenda of painting Milk as a major pro-Jones/People's Temple supporter when my looking into sources shows almost the opposite. Milk stated at the beginning he thought they were weird and dangerous. As a politician he basically did what all the politicians were doing. This letter is the lone piece of evidence that is being used to support Milk as being aligned with Jones in some fashion. In it, if we are to accept it at face value, Milk also details that Jones/People's Temple got widespread support including from the California Senate. This is also the kind of letter that politicians routinely write for a variety of reasons. I'm concerned that editors are cherry-picking information to somehow add scandal where little to none exists. Just in the past hour they have re-added a section devoted to this subject back into the Milk article without consensus. I'd appreciate someone else looking at this as I don't thing anything I say will be received well at this point. Banjeboi 17:02, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- This was also raised, in slightly different form, on WP:AN, and I replied there as a neutral third party. The discussion should probably be centralized either there, or perhaps more desirably, on the article's Talk page. --MCB (talk) 21:01, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- Respectfully disagree. The editor who keeps inserting POV content seems incapable of adhering to policy and writing this material neutrally. For instance, Milk wrote a letter of support is neutral - "supported the controversial Peoples Temple during investigations of criminal wrongdoings" is not. It misinterprets this letter which this entire content fork relies upon. 71.139.44.169 (talk) 17:58, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
Atropa belladonna
For the last six months, proponents of alternative medicine have been wanting to see particular mention of homeopathic uses of atropa belladonna included in the article about the plant. The problem is that there are no reliable sources which say that homeopathy is a prominent use of this particular plant. There are sources which indicate that all homeopathic remedies do not contain any molecules or atoms from the plants/compounds from which they are supposedly created. There are sources which mention that homeopathic remedies that homeopaths claim are "based" on this particular plant exist. Some fringe journals have done tests on those remedies to see if they have any efficacy, but like all tests of homeopathic remedies have come up short. There is one sentence in a book on "Health Foods" which mentions, off-handedly that there are some homoepathic uses for the plant, but don't explain whether that is relevant to the plant itself, nor does the book itself seem to care enough to even define homeopathy. So we have editors basically POV-pushing to get mention of the homeopathic "use" of this particular plant on the page devoted to this plant. How do we resist their incursion and attempts to give homeopathy undue weight in an article that should be mostly about botany? I've looked at dozens of sources and can say that if we count the number of words written about this plant and compare to the number of words that are about homeopathy and this plant, the ratio would be something like less than one word for the article to be appropriately weighted. ScienceApologist (talk) 20:28, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- Here are the sources currently being used in the article:
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- The Oxford Book of Health Food, Oxford University Press
- Ultramolecular homeopathy has no observable clinical effects. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled proving trial of Belladonna 30C, The British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology
- Belladonna (Atropa belladonna L. or its variety acuminata...), Medline Plus
- Each of these sources mention the homeopathic usage not off-handedly, but rather critically, from a scientific mainstream perspective. They describe the usage and tend to refute the efficacy. Some of these source mention various dilutions (200c, 60c, 30c, etc.) and while these are "ultramolecular", none of them say that the remedy do not contain any molecules or atoms from the plants nor that the remedies weren't derived by using the plant as an ingredient.
- Other sources we may want to consider using include:
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- Plants and fungi used in homeopathy, The Natural History Museum
- some of these 800+ references, PubMed - such as:
- From my perspective, no one currently at the article is actively trying to use it to promote homeopathic usage. The mention is rather critical and pretty much aligned with what the mainstream sources are saying. No one is trying to push any POV less critical than what mainstream science sources are saying. ScienceApologist, on the other hand, is pushing to include unsourced passages which are even more critical than what mainstream science sources are saying, or he is pushing for outright deletion of any mention of the homeopathic usage.
- Previous noticeboard discussion include one here and one over at RSN. ScienceApologist has also recently brought this to FTN twice: here and here. -- Levine2112 discuss 21:31, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
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- I note that this is the kind of civil POV-pushing that confuses the issue. The sources that are mentioned by Levine2112 are either not about the plant itself (the one primary sources is an attempt to disprove homeopathy: they just happened to choose a remedy that has the name of the plant attached to it), are search engines that allow links to homeopathy resources, or are databases that include every homeopathic remedy known to man and do not make any distinction. If we used these as our standards of inclusion, virtually every plant, chemical, and animal page on Wikipedia would have a section devoted to the homeopathic remedy associated with it (for a partial list see List of homeopathic remedies). What I have gunned for all along is an indication that this fringe association is somehow prominent. No one has been able to provide me with anything. The CLOSEST people have come is to the Oxford Book of Health Foods which mentions homeopathy in the most cursory and off-handed of fashions: not even bothering to properly define it. I submit that undue weight is not satisfied by these sources. No one has countered my argument directly except to balk. No one has provided any sources that indicate that atropa belladonna as a plant is known for its inclusion in homeopathic remedies. Nor has anyone argued why an obscure group of homeopaths who are very good at producing loads of crap for various credulity-levels of sourcing should be allowed to dominate our sourcing for a plant that they have no expertise in whatsoever. Do you see any botanists saying that atropa belladonna is famous for its use in homeopathy? Do you see any mention of homeopathy on other equally interesting plants and animals like poison ivy, hemlock, or cobras? Please, I see no reason to entertain this nonsense any longer. ScienceApologist (talk) 22:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
- SA, please consider refactoring your "Civil POV Pushing" accusation. WP:POVPUSH: "...calling someone a "POV-pusher" is always uncivil...". -- Levine2112 discuss 00:02, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- I note that this is the kind of civil POV-pushing that confuses the issue. The sources that are mentioned by Levine2112 are either not about the plant itself (the one primary sources is an attempt to disprove homeopathy: they just happened to choose a remedy that has the name of the plant attached to it), are search engines that allow links to homeopathy resources, or are databases that include every homeopathic remedy known to man and do not make any distinction. If we used these as our standards of inclusion, virtually every plant, chemical, and animal page on Wikipedia would have a section devoted to the homeopathic remedy associated with it (for a partial list see List of homeopathic remedies). What I have gunned for all along is an indication that this fringe association is somehow prominent. No one has been able to provide me with anything. The CLOSEST people have come is to the Oxford Book of Health Foods which mentions homeopathy in the most cursory and off-handed of fashions: not even bothering to properly define it. I submit that undue weight is not satisfied by these sources. No one has countered my argument directly except to balk. No one has provided any sources that indicate that atropa belladonna as a plant is known for its inclusion in homeopathic remedies. Nor has anyone argued why an obscure group of homeopaths who are very good at producing loads of crap for various credulity-levels of sourcing should be allowed to dominate our sourcing for a plant that they have no expertise in whatsoever. Do you see any botanists saying that atropa belladonna is famous for its use in homeopathy? Do you see any mention of homeopathy on other equally interesting plants and animals like poison ivy, hemlock, or cobras? Please, I see no reason to entertain this nonsense any longer. ScienceApologist (talk) 22:13, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
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<outdent> I'd be more concerned that the article contains a comment on Recreational drug use. I agree the discussion on homeopathy is too long, but most of it is the rebuking discussion. I would handle it more like the Oxford source did. Just mention it once in passing in the same sentence with the disclaimer that "there is no experimental evidence of it's effectiveness and to be clear; all parts of deady nightshade are poisonous and should not be ingested." -- Dēmatt (chat) 13:14, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- Agree with the spirit of this suggestion but would go even further to simply state something to the effect that it is used in some homeopathic preparations, full stop. Putting in the disclaimer is somewhat COATRACKY, as would be giving the details of the preparations. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 14:24, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- I wouldn't be opposed to this suggestion either. You're right about the COATRACKY. I do think we need to make sure that readers don't try something ontheir own. Perhaps maybe we mention homeopathy once in a string of common over the counter uses, but make sure to mention that all parts of the plant are deadly, just to be sure someone doesn't try something stupid. I commented on the talk page as well. -- Dēmatt (chat) 14:39, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- It's not actually used in the preparations. The preparations do not contain any part of the plant. ScienceApologist (talk) 17:00, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- Are you saying that there is no belladonna in the homeopathic remedy? Or are you saying that no belladonna was used in the preparation of the remedy? Or both? Can you point us to any sources which back up whichever position you currently have? -- Levine2112 discuss 17:35, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- It's not actually used in the preparations. The preparations do not contain any part of the plant. ScienceApologist (talk) 17:00, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
- (FYI: I have an anti-homeopathy POV. Go to the talk page of the Homeopathy article and look at my old postings.) My impression is that ScienceApologist is one of the most disruptive editors on the entire Wikipedia. Not because he is a raving lunatic. No, he is higly intelligent and knows every policy and guideline like the back of his own pocket. His disruptions comes from his unwillingness to accept and reach for a consensus, a systematic gaming of the system, deliberate misunderstandings when it suits him, an intellectual dishonesty, his use of sock puppets, his false accusations of others being sock puppets (including me), his constant testing of how far he can go in almost transgressing WP rules before being blocked, his disrespect for the disciplinary sanctions imposed on him by an earlier Arbcom. In My Opinion, the rest of the WP community shold just dismiss ScienceApologist and ignore him. MaxPont (talk) 08:13, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
- I wouldn't be opposed to this suggestion either. You're right about the COATRACKY. I do think we need to make sure that readers don't try something ontheir own. Perhaps maybe we mention homeopathy once in a string of common over the counter uses, but make sure to mention that all parts of the plant are deadly, just to be sure someone doesn't try something stupid. I commented on the talk page as well. -- Dēmatt (chat) 14:39, 7 August 2008 (UTC)
2008 Summer Olympics
The section Concerns and controversies has questionable NPOV (reads like Chinese propaganda). Since the page is semi-protected, I can't flag it. I've highlighted my concerns on the Talk page.
CompSciChris (talk) 12:01, 8 August 2008 (UTC) CompSciChris
Lašva Valley ethnic cleansing
The whole article is just from the point of view of Bosniak victims. It is a matter of fact that in the Bosniak and Croat war there were cca. 100,000 Croats ethnically cleansed in the Lasva Valley but yet it is nowhere mentioned. It just utilizes a limited point of view to further its own agenda. Therefore, it cannot be a neutral point of view.
- Comment
I read the article. The whole article is based purely on WP:RS and WP:NPOV. There are hundred of sources, references from ICTY verdicts, HRW reports, BBC etc. So it is not "point of view of Bosniak victims". This is one of the best war related articles I have ever read on Wikipedia. According to the sources, there is nothing about "100,000 Croats ethnically cleansed in the Lasva Valley" suggested by anon. However the ICTY concluded: Based on the evidence of numerous Croat forces (HVO) attacks at that time, the ICTY Trial Chamber concluded that by April 1993 Croat leadership had a common design or plan conceived and executed to ethnically cleanse Bosniaks from the Lašva Valley. Dario Kordić, as the local political leader, was found to be the planner and instigator of this plan. ICTY-Kordic verdict. Historičar (talk) 18:49, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Oliver Sacks
I happen to think the following line in Oliver Sacks is something that is being given undue weight, at least with regard to the Oliver Sacks article:
- According to a Letter to the Editor published by the Journal of autism and developmental disorders, the exact details in the book should not be taken literally and there are alternate, skeptical views.
I don't have a problem with the criticism/source being included in The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat, to which it is specific. Does anyone agree or disagree?--Father Goose (talk) 03:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- Father Goose, perhaps your POV about Sacks affects your view? [7] It appears that you seek to remove the one attributed sourced critical opinion of Sacks' writing from the article about him, which barely touches the broader issue of medical accuracy in his writing. One well-attributed sentence is hardly WP:UNDUE. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:37, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
To put literary criticism in a broader context, I've now expanded it to two sentences and four sources. For a well known author, that's not a lot of critical review; more can be included if desired. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:33, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- I'm a neuroscientist myself, and I largely agree with Father Goose: the article as written has a weight issue, in that it fails to convey adequately the fact that the view of Sacks from the scientific community is overwhelmingly positive, and that the criticism comes from a pretty small minority. Looie496 (talk) 17:05, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
- Someone might want to dig in to Jstor fee required articles to expand positive views of his work (where they will also find more negative). I also suggest sorting out input from the scientific and medical community from the reception from literary reviews and critics: distinctly different issues. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:43, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Discussion of NPOV issues on Satanic Ritual Abuse talk
It has been asserted that the use of only three skeptical authors being given 48 out of 127 citations (almost 38%) on the page (Frankfurter 11, Victor 24, LaFontaine 13 - as of three days ago) is a violation of the NPOV policy, where it is stated "none of the views should be given undue weight" and at WP:UNDUE it is stated "NPOV says that the article should fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by a reliable source, and should do so in proportion to the prominence of each." The complaint is that these three authors are not nearly that prominent. Another complaint is that there is too much weight given to what one editor calls "an extremely skeptical" position and that reliable sources that are neutral or pro-SRA on the topic are being deleted from the article. The other side states that the skeptical view is the majority view and other views are minority ones. Information on the debate is here. ResearchEditor (talk) 05:14, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
- Note: I have collapsed the discussion below that meandered here from the talk page by editors involved in discussion there. Suffice it to say that several editors in this collapsed discussion express some strong disagreement in how RE has described the situation just above. Anyone who comments here is advised to read this collapsed discussion and to visit the talk page. Outside input from uninvolved editors would be much appreciated.PelleSmith (talk) 17:26, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
The section below clearly shows that a large portion of the page should be written about the pro side of the debate. The sources below should not simply be ignored or deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ResearchEditor (talk • contribs)
- The section below is mostly of irrelevant and popular interest; those scholarly publications that exist that are used to support the idea that SRA is an ongoing concern do not "clearly" demonstrate anything; they are problematic, if not outright irrelevant. WLU (talk) 17:05, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
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- Actually, the section below is very relevant. These scholarly publications are the bulk of the research of those working with actual victims of SRA. These were written when the debate was most notable. The few sources that were written in the last 8 years were written by a few extremely biased sources that had no experience with the acutal victims or cases. They are at best a historical footnote and should be treated as such on the SRA page. ResearchEditor (talk) 01:29, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
