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Contents 1 LGBT categories 2 English-language albums 3 Adding standard description on category pages 4 Creation of a new category 5 Another proposal to tidy up categories 5.1 Proposed categorization rules 6 Renaming categories 7 Dots instead of | 8 Coastal and port cities and towns – after the deletion review 9 stubs and uncategorised

LGBT categories

I'm looking for anyone interested in helping review and possibly revamp the LGBT people and culture categories. See that talk page if you're interested. -- SatyrTN (talk / contribs) 15:39, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

English-language albums

A user just created Category:English-language albums, which currently has a little over 200 articles. Personally, I don't think a category like that is necessary, because if a foreign language is not listed, then it is implied to be English since its the English Wikipedia. It's the same reason that the "language" parameter in infoboxes should be left empty unless it is something other than English. Before this category gets too big, I think we should discuss whether it is necessary or not to begin with. –Dream out loud (talk) 19:50, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds unnecessary to me.--Kotniski (talk) 16:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Adding standard description on category pages

I've been thinking about adding descriptive boxes at the top of category pages, saying what the category contains, what the parent categories are, what the relation with those parents is, what some related categories are, etc. This could be done using templates with parameters. It might be useful for both editors and readers when viewing the categories. I've created a kind of prototype at Category:Villages in Mogilno County. I know it doesn't look great as it stands - a lot more work would be needed to bring something like this into general use - but any comments on the general principle?--Kotniski (talk) 16:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Nice initiative. Needs to be elaborated and discussed before I can give a position though. __meco (talk) 16:59, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Not sure how I feel about this. I would oppose including the parent categories in the box since they are listed on the bottom of the page. Also pink is not a good choice since it is close to red and that's a warning color. Collapsed as the default is good. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:30, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Sounds similar to Wikipedia:Classification. -- Rick Block (talk) 00:52, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but still Classification seems not to be universally used, and what I envisage is more wordy information to make things clearer to both readers and editors. Of course the color can be easily changed - maybe we could have different colors for different types of category, but that's a detail. About including the parent categories - I would definitely mention them, even though they do already appear at the bottom of the page, because a) they aren't very visible at the bottom of the page (though in an initially hidden box I guess they aren't very visible there either); b) my main reason for mentioning them is to document the relationship between the current category and each parent category - whether pages in the category are supposed to appear in the parent category as well (usually they aren't, but in some cases - like Oscar-winning actors - they are - the difference can be specified using different template parameters). I'm going to change the templates in fact to use a single template for the whole thing, and add some functionality to demonstrate other possibilities. I'll keep you posted. --Kotniski (talk) 08:16, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

One benefit I hope to achieve from this (though it could be done independently in fact) is to eliminate certain inappropriate subcategory relationships where category A is defined as a subcategory of B even though logically it isn't a subcategory, only a somehow related category. By putting the related category in the description, you get it linked from category B's page without having to make it a subcategory.--Kotniski (talk) 08:21, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Creation of a new category

I would like to create two new categories: Category:Albums not categorized by artist and Category:Songs not categorized by artist. However, I want these to be hidden categories, and I want them to automatically place on articles that meet the criteria (like Category:Single articles with infobox field chart position). How would I do this? Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells • Otter chirps • HELP)} 05:31, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

To make them hidden categories, just add {{hiddencat}} to the category page. I can't think of any way of creating them automatically, though, except by using a bot.--Kotniski (talk) 09:10, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Another proposal to tidy up categories

Some time ago on this page I remember discussing "Sam's proposal" to rationalize the way catgories are used. Discussion went off down various avenues and the proposal no doubt went the way of all good ideas; but since nothing has been done in the meantime, allow me to present a "new" proposal which is quite similar in concept to Sam's as I remember it, but may this time actually result in something being done. So here goes.

Proposed categorization rules

(NOTE: These rules are to be interpreted as ideals to be aspired to, not as something which has to be implemented across the board right away.)

1. Each category to be designated either a "topic category", containing articles related to a specific topic, or an "index category", containing articles on subjects of a particular class.
2. No topic category to be a subcategory of an index category (that would usually be illogical). In particular, don't make category A a subcategory of category B just because category A is named after something (A) which belongs as a member of category B.
3. No page to be placed directly in a category if it is also (directly or indirectly) in one of its subcategories, unless that subcategory is designated as a "distinguished subcategory" (better name required; I mean things like Oscar-winners among actors).
4. Information about the intended content of categories and the above-mentioned "designations" to be placed on the category page itself, along with links to any connected pages and categories that don't logically belong as subcategories or parent caetgories (see my template suggestions a few threads up).

I could go into more detail but I'll pause to await reaction. My overall desire is to make the category system reasonably uniform across WP (which it is not now, particularly with regard to point 2.) and semantically meaningful (which again it isn't everywhere). I know some people consider this impossible, but we can still move in the right direction, even if we remain a long way from perfection.--Kotniski (talk) 18:03, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Renaming categories

Category:Theatres in Houston, Texas needs to be renamed to Category:Theaters in Houston, Texas - How do I do this? WhisperToMe (talk) 23:04, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

The directions are here. However I suspect that this will not succeed since this an accepted spelling and used in most categories. Vegaswikian (talk) 23:15, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

No, it should succeed. As per WP:ENGVAR we should use American English with American subjects and British English with British subjects. WhisperToMe (talk) 15:55, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Dots instead of |

I would like to see dots such as "•" or similar to replace the "|" that seperates the categories, for aesthetics reasons. It is much easier on the eyes, as the wouldn't be any confusion between 1s, Is and so forth. Many templates now use dots instead of |'s so any opinions.

I don't know if this is the right place for this, and if not redirection would be appreciated.  The Windler talk  10:40, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

I re-posted at WP:VP. Don't worry.  The Windler talk  09:48, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Coastal and port cities and towns – after the deletion review

This is the place for discussion following the deletion review close on September 30, 2008

I was the original nominator of renaming (See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 September 14#Coastal_and_port_cities_and_towns) these categories. My intention was to make a smoother integration with the general settlements hierarchy and between the Coastal and Ports and harbours hierarchies.

It is fine to have for instance Category:Coastal towns in Australia or Category:Port cities in Canada. What I want is that these should belong to Category:Coastal settlements in Australia and Category:Port settlements in Canada. I.e. the settlements categories should be mandatory, but subordinate structures hinging on types of settlements should be added freely. since Port settlements is unidiomatic, and according to some ambiguous, I propose to change this term to Portside settlements. __meco (talk) 07:28, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

Neither "port settlements" nor "portside settlements" make any meaningful sense in English. Also, calling any major city a "coastal settlement" makes something of a mockery of the encyclopaedia - some might argue it is political correctness gone mad, that we can't refer to cities in case we hurt townspeople's feelings or something. The category for example Category:Host cities of the Summer Olympic Games has never been argued, nor would it be. Orderinchaos 05:22, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I wonder why the main point of my argument continues to elude you and if I'm really that awful at presenting my ideas. Neither here nor in previous discussions on the deletion review page or on Australian Wikipedians' notice board do you even touch upon the reason I give for wanting to make these changes but instead you keep harping on these suggested names which you find so abhorent as if they were the centrepiece of the proposal, and instead of even attempting to be constructive you seem rather intent on mocking the whole initiative – again, with continually only addressing an incidental point which has no importance whatsoever to the core of my argument. __meco (talk) 06:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Given they were the names these things were actually changed to, I think the proposal can stand or fall on the basis of them. The purpose *does* entirely elude me, as I see no case for the existing system not working, which is the usual reason why a major worldwide change would be proposed. At present, it appears to me as a (flawed) solution looking for a problem. Orderinchaos 08:43, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

The incentive for initiating this process has all along been to harmonize category hierarchies hinging on settlements located near bodies of water, be those lakes, rivers or oceans. In the plain settlements hierarchy Category:Settlements is the top category and a diffusion based on size (cities, towns, villages basically) and location derives from that (see Category:Settlements by country) . When adding a third property, such as location next to a waterbody, it is important to the flow and coherence of the category structure at large that these settlements (or you may want to use communities as your preferred generic term) are categorized according to a scheme which is analogous and compatible with the existing dual property structure. __meco (talk) 06:56, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

In what way, though, is the current system deficient? Orderinchaos 08:44, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

stubs and uncategorised

when patrolling new pages i occasionally see pages whose only "category" is "stubs" (see Remote Data Exchange Protocol as an example), my inclination is to tag it with "uncategorised", so as to flag it to those who enjoy categorising articles but as it has a "category" that seems wrong too. could someone clue me in as to current policy/preference? thanks Mission Fleg (talk) 04:41, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

While the stub templates do create a category, it is only temporary. I see no problem either adding appropriate categories or tagging it as uncategorized. Vegaswikian (talk) 06:06, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

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